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 Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)

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rayvallero

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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:45 am


#8 ? coming---------IT's most that you need to know.
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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:39 pm

#8-Ray didn't have enough coffee
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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:07 pm


Chris, you got that right! Or too much coffee is more the problem. bounce
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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:33 pm

I am going to go for Ray drinking too much 'caffeinated' coffee when he thought he was drinking de-caf. Not that it ever happens... bounce

I am just sayin'...

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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:20 pm

I GOT IT! #7-Head Torque.
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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:39 pm

If it's okay to step away from the quiz highjacking for a moment?... Wink

Ray found some different rings in his shop that he wants to use, rather than the ones we had. The Sealed Power top rings are chrome, they wear better in dirty conditions and this helps especially if I don't run air filters (I plan on running air filters, but that will take some work to get them to fit).

Here's the chrome top ring next to the second ring.



The scraper (second) ring is CB Performance and is not a Total Seal, but high quality material. It has a step on the edge, which is a better method of moving the oil back.



The oil ring is an SS-50, stainless steel 3 piece rail type with a low drag, also made by Sealed Power. Here's the whole set that I'll be using.



Okay, you can go back to your quizzing now....
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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:47 pm

I will move the Quizzing to a diffrent spot. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:07 pm

Time for an update!

Ray's been very busy, and has been grinding on the heads and manifolds off and on for weeks, so that just shows how much time goes in to these kind of mods. He really has to be a sculptor and be focused and in the right frame of mind. It's hard to do that in a rush between other work, so the stars have to align and.... Okay, well maybe not like that, but close.

He's ground down the guide bosses in the intakes for even better flow. Compare mine now to Lynda's racebus heads that weren't done this way.



Lynda's bosses:



Mine:



When he put the bosses into the heads, he heats them up 250 degrees to slide the guides in without tearing them up. Without heating, it may shift going in since it now doesn't have a big boss to support it.

The venturi on the 48 IDA's is 37mm (see the stamped # in there).



Ray would like the intake port to be overall larger than the venturi (37). He's gotten it to 40.37 X 36mm port diameter.



Everything in the airway should be larger than the venturi. So that the signal to the venturi is not restricted. He has made sure that the seat pocket is also larger than the venturi in the carb, measured with this snap gauge.



Dual springs are needed to follow the cam profile and the rpm range that we plan on achieving.




The guide bosses on this side need to be cut for the dual springs to fit. The one on the far right is done.



Doing the one on the left now.



We are topping the guides to allow for more lift. I am running 1.3 rockers for longevity. Less wear by less lift. Ray says that there is .060 less lift going from 1.5 to 1.3. Even though we are running less lift than the cam manufacturer recommends, the stock guides will not accept .497 lift the way they are, so we must top the stock guides to accept approxamatley .525 lift.

We are making up for the lack of lift in other areas in the intake runners, intake pockets, and intake valves. Im sorry, I can't say how we are doing this. Trade secret Wink


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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:49 am

I was beginning to wonder what the heck was going on with this! Got to love those trade secrets Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:15 am


You Should ............ Smile) Thats what makes RED cars go fast.
She only wants more power.!!!!! So be it..... Smile cat
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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:03 pm

New valves are not perfect out of the box. The head binds in the guide, this is why.
The stem measures 7.91mm.



And the head is 7.94.



He will external hone it to 7.91 also, using this tool.



And our very own MATEO took this vid in my absence. Smile



Semi unshrouded bowls, with the valves in place.



Moving along.... more grinding still needed, then cc'ing the heads.
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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:53 pm

I don't feel so bad hijacking this thread. Wink

But have you ever seen that part of Fantasia, the Sorcerer's Apprentice? You know where Mickey gets busted for swiping the Sorcerer's wand when he isn't looking and having all that fun and then figuring out, uh oh, I am in over my head???

That is totally what happens at Rays. I am just saying... affraid jocolor

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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:57 pm


Uh, oh, Matt.... What did you DO!?
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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:06 pm

Nothin'. Well, that I am willing to cop to.

I am just saying it's all magic to me and when he makes it look all easy and then I go and try to do it I usually end up covered in something that I shouldn't be and having to take everything all apart and going back to the drawing board.

Although, I am almost a short block master. Well for stockers anyway.

God help Ray when I go to build Kay. All these race motors running around like brooms with pails of water.

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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:37 pm





"O" MATT I JUST DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU. MATT YOU ARE AS
CAR KRAZY AS DAWN. WELL I WOUNDN'T GO THAT FAR REALLY
YOUR JUST KRAZY albino
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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Mon Dec 26, 2011 2:50 am


In recent weeks, Ray has been on his own working on the heads and valves, since I work for Fedex and it's Christmas (just imagine). He says:

"I cc'd the head it has 45 cc's now. It would have 11.20:1 compression, a *bit high*. We need 55 cc's to get 9.20:1. I will grind more out for more cc's, keeping in mind the best places to grind for more air flow. It's a good thing I did not fly cut much out of the heads. Although I really did know what I was doing because we want about .045 deck, it is harder to work the heads, than the deck. But will run better the way i am doing it. The easy way is to shim and get more deck, and then cry when you get beat by someone like us....."

Twisted Evil

Here are some "protector valves" that Ray made. They are to protect the seat from damage while unshrouding.



They are ground down like a razor blade (one on the left) to sit flush.



So, here are my valves that we are using, supposed to be 44 x 37...



But we measure them and they are never exact to begin with.



In addition to the fact that the valve heads sit on top of the seat. See pics below, there is a large edge sitting above the seats. We will reduce the diameter of the valve heads so that they sit more flush for better flow.





And look at the size of the seat, measured with a snap gauge.





A bit over 5mm of the valve head overhangs the seat. We can remove around 2.5mm on each side.

So, we go to the Bridgeport. Using the collet chuck to reduce the head size of the valve.



Cutting the valve...The valve is spinning and the cutter is fixed. The valve bends a bit, so he keeps cutting until the valve stops bending. (warning: the cutter "sings" a high pitched sound, prepare to turn the volume down, it may hurt your ears)



Ray checks the diameter of the seat vs. the actual valve after cutting it down a bit. He does this in an old fashioned way of just smacking it hard enough to leave a faint line to get an idea of where it will hit.



By reducing the diameter of the valve head at low lift, the reduction in size is doubled because you get it on opening and closing. Full lift only happens once. Even at full lift, we gain because the valve diameter is smaller. The valve is what blocks the airway.

Ray has topped the guides so that the lift is .498 at the valve with 1.3 rockers. But remember we are cutting the back of the valve to make up for that, so we will pick up more on the back side. Really, we will have over .500.

People may think it will be lazy because we are using a 1.3 rocker instead of 1.4-1.5. But it won't be because the valves will open more.

Intake at full lift:



Exhaust at full lift:



The diameter of the valve is now 42.85 mm, he removed 1.15mm, and YES, we are running that in a 44 seat. Shocked And now that the edge has been removed, he had to recut the 45 degree angle on the valve face and then do a back cut to 15 degrees. (note past post in this thread that we had already back cut at 25 degrees, but he rethought it and decided on 15 to get about .030 more lift)

Sorry for the blurry cell phone picture.



The valve on the right is now blended after the cut job, you can see even more lift was gained.



The valve on the right now has the stem done also to enhance air flow even more.



All done with the valves and the heads, finally!



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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:18 am


A week ago he checked for interference between the valve spring retainers and guides. Which also established push rod length. Note that test springs are being used for increased visibility.





Then we got the pushrods from Smith Brothers. They are 7/16 double taper aluminum. Ray has ran aluminum for decades, even though some people dispute that they will work, he's never had a problem. He ran them in the 912 racecar 25 years ago and often twisted it up over 11K rpms. Hugo's 28 year old motor has the original aluminum ones in it also. The double taper is for extra strength. It's hard to see the difference in this photo, but mine is the one on the top.



He polished the tips of the valves, notice how shiny they are in the first photo below. Normally, they are run with oil channels, the abrasion on the tip (you can barely see it on the comparison valve he is holding below). But those ridges/channels file against the rocker tip and create more wear. Especially when first started cold and the rubbing is slow and there is not as much oil (squashes out because 300# of pressure on tip). Think of it like a tire tread on wet pavement, when the oil there makes it skate. When the car goes slower, the weight is pressing down more and the ridges have more grip. Therefore, Ray feels those ridges are counterproductive and so he polishes the tips. He's torn down engines for a living for almost 50 years, so I figure he's seen the results of these sorts of things to base these opinions. And we're lucky to glean the results of all that experience. Smile





I had a Berg deep sump (not sure, but it's 3 or 3.5 quart) on Hugo's old motor, I have for 28 years. But it is very low and so we went with a wide shallower CB 1.5 quart sump for this one. More cooling! At first Ray didn't think that the headers would clear it, but he measured them and they should. If not, we will use a 1 quart that isn't as wide. Notice it has the Old School "Claudes Buggies" logo on it! (Thanks Mateo!) I feel so old when guys that are very knowledgeable and experienced with VW's don't know that is what the CB stands for... affraid



Got new clutch disks. Better the the one I have and the pressure plate is stronger. Even though this motor will have a lot of power, I will have to be careful because my tranny is still old and I'm out of $$ for a while.... I wasn't even dumping the clutch at Test And Tune last summer and it smelled bad.



Long block assembled!



We've added a new inlet and outlet for the second 72-pass oil cooler, rather than running it inline with the first one. It's Ray's experience in the past that the first one brings down the oil temp about 30-40 degrees. But a second one inline only brings it down an additional 15 degrees or so, rather than doubling the benefit. Early in the build, we were going to use a single 96 pass. But have decided to do two 72 pass coolers with complete separate lines.



IDA's always look wicked, but on such shortened manifolds -- Wow! How sick is this!?? cheers



The tin has been a bear with lots of fabricating due to the motor being so narrow. Especially around the shortened manifolds. Being the perfectionist he is, he got a beautiful fit here around them.



We REALLY want the manifolds on for the motor install. Basically because they will be a beeyatch to try and get to the nuts after the engine is in the car. Ray did some measuring and the entire motor is about 4" narrower overall, so it should go in with them on. Smile Look at how tight they fit into the tin. They flare out so low, those nuts are tight to get to, even with it on the rack in the open. Hugo has doors in the wheel wells to access the current 40's, which we will make larger. And we may need a special spark plug wrench, just for this engine. We will see soon.





All holes 3% on a cold motor at the bottom, 2% at the top with .017 ring end gap. Very good leak down!



Isn't this a beautiful thing?





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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:54 am

That sump is 'vintage' CB and a double threat!

It will increase Hugo's aerodynamics AND oil cooling ability.

That's a bad ass 'little' motor you got going there! VROOM VROOM

Can't wait to go to the track.

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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Mon Jan 02, 2012 2:47 pm

We are getting close to installing this monster finally. First up is fixing the impromptu holes that were cut in the wheel wells 28 years ago for my 40 webers. Sort of a hack job, but was functional so it never got improved upon. Firstly, the underseal needs to be removed to cut a cleaner/larger hole (that is a 40 that you see, on my old motor, don't get tooooo excited yet) The heat gun makes it easy to remove that 50 year old underseal.



Hugo's old motor is out (will be going in Velvet the bus):



Cutting them larger with the plasma cutter. We will close the holes with some removable doors.



Since the manifolds are short, the linkage has to be raised somehow. Ray was hoping to go *through* the alternator, but the regulator inside is right in line, so he cannot. This is a temporary solution, he cut some push rods to use as supports (pillars if you will) to raise the linkage. This will not work with the air cleaners on later. But I want to show this for anyone else interested in using short manifolds that will run stacks only.



The 48 IDA's need to be drilled with an extra hole to improve the flat spot for street use. It puts the transition between idle and high speed closer together. Some people run IDA's on a street car and say that they do not need the extra hole, but it is often because they jet them too rich in the idle circuit to compensate.

Stock holes:



Lilliputian drill bits:



Sort of made my teeth hurt....



Done, three holes now:



Flywheel is lightened to 11#.




Next up is balancing the flywheel, installing the 2nd oil cooler and an electric fuel pump on the car. THEN installing the motor!

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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:43 pm

bounce
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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Mon Jan 02, 2012 5:04 pm

Now the flywheel needs to be balanced. I wasn't at the shop to take video of this, so Mateo helped with these pics (thanks Mateo!). If anyone really wants video of this, please ask me, I can go and shoot him doing another as an example. Here it is sitting in the balancing machine ready to begin the process. It has been mounted on a crank that is known to be balanced already.



Spinning in the machine.



Removing material from the flywheel to acheive balance.





The flywheel is spinning in the machine, yet the strobe captures our white mark. This stationary mark helps identify where it needs to have material removed for proper balance. In this machine, the 'heavy' spot is always at "3 o-clock" from the stationary mark. If Ray removed too much material in the previous pictures, that mark would flop 180 degrees meaning he took off too much material and now the opposite side of the flywheel is heavy.





This shows the needle at zero for proper balance. You can't see it but the flywheel is spinning. Ray doesn't use the RPM meter on the right. You can tell because the RPM meter is below zero and the balance meter is at zero. So that shows the meter as being active.



The flywheel is installed and torqued to 600# w/ torque wrench, not impact, with red locktight. He has wrapped the j-tubes on the exhaust to help the head temp. He also spent 3 days bench testing that shroud with additional vane combinations and is currently happy with some good flow of air over #3 and #4 for now. View of the front of the engine. You can see the 15% inward tilt of the carbs for better clearance. This motor is 4" narrower than my old 1600cc with dual 40's was, even with 48's. We are hoping this will allow for easy access and to close the decklid with air filters on, without popping it out. Smile It is 28-1/2" wide from manifold to manifold, and so is the car.



Here it is, almost ready. Ray took the exhaust off for an easier install.



Quick note on Hugo. The car was stripped of chrome, lowered with a Select-A-Drop (not narrowed beam), it has bus reverse lights installed in the low front vent holes for turn signals, etc, for "California Look" back in 1978. One thing that I have never seen anyone else do in all these years though: We removed the skirt beading on the body on the front and back, along with filling the tweeter exhaust holes, to complete the clean look. Yes, that is a crack on the weld on the right side. It worsened due to the merged exhaust (I was running this exhaust on the 1600) hitting the skirt. Sad



We are using 5/8" spark plugs and Ray is making a special tool for this engine that will be kept in the car to remove them for the tight fit. Hey, the wires are Made In USA, yay! Smile The plug boots are thick and have a groove for a tight fit. He also put a lot of time into being sure that the tin fits very tightly with no air leaks for helping keep the heads cool as possible.



Here's a cut piece of the plug boot.



The doghouse hole is blocked off as we test this shroud.



The throttle cable tube through the shroud will be offset, so we are using a fine wire braided cable. Here's the tube:



Next post will be putting the engine in the car, hopefully with the manifolds ON (personal goal for Ray)!

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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:59 am

can someone please pass me a shammy as i need to wipe up all my drool.

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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:57 am

I got to touch it... Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:53 pm

A bit more on mods on the carbs right out of the box, in case anyone is considering IDA's:

They also come dry and need some lubricating in a couple places to be trouble free later. Ray says that these things should also be checked periodically as good maintenance. First he lubricates the pump roller. He uses a heat gun so it does the best job of getting the oil inside. If left dry, and it stops rolling, it will rub a flat spot onto it and could stick.





He also pins the "accelerator pump stationary shaft" (him using big words, I wouldn't know what it's called) and lubricates the spring.


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PostSubject: Re: Hugo's engine build at the Magical Place (Vallero's Machine Shop)   Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:44 pm

Success! Warning, Ray is excited and uses a naughty word... Wink His goal was to be able to install this narrow motor with the manifolds on and it was a perfect fit, both 28-1/2" wide (motor and car). Got it in very easily.



I tried to get a picture of the clearance from the velocity stacks to the decklid by closing the lid and shooting from inside the access hole in the fender well. It wouldn't come out 3D enough. But trust me, there's a ton of room between them and the lid inside, hopefully plenty of room for the air cleaners. I don't have them yet to test it.

This picture shows a notch in the body to the right of the carb (in the red body, near the rubber decklid seal), that was put there to clear my 40 weber air cleaners from the old motor. Smile



This is freakin' awesome, being able to reach an entire hand/fist to fiddle with 48 IDA's in a bug, without even using the door in the wheel well...



Looking down through decklid hinge area:



We bought this alternator pulley, but it's crap. We're not going to use it. Wobbles and rattles.



Used an old stock pulley we had laying around. Shimmed it up to sink the belt into the pulley in order to get a bit more fan revolutions.



Still have to hook up gauges, mount the electric fuel pump, put doors on the holes in the fender wells, mount the 2nd oil cooler, etc. SOON: first start up.


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