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 1600dp Build

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Paul. T
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PostSubject: 1600dp Build   Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:28 pm

Well folks, wish me luck. I cant sell this motor so I figure Ill use all of the little spare time I have to build it. No, I have absolutely NO CLUE WHAT THE HELL IM DOING. But Im doing it. Ive got about 1000 pages open on where to start and going from there. I can afford a couple upgrades, if I knew what the hell to buy. Im going to bump it up to a 1641cc, and want to run a different fuel pump other than stock. Mainly because the stock mechanic fuel pump is hideous. Other than that any tips or smart remarks you would like to make, make. This is my first time, but I will not be gentle.





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PostSubject: Re: 1600dp Build   Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:44 pm

Where to start....... Looks like you have a counter weighted crank, that's real good. Is it a stock stroke? Nice case. I like to drill and tap the case for full flow oil filter as long as it's apart anyway. If you don't go full flow, just put a pipe plug in it. For a 1641 you want the 88mm piston and barrel set. Available as "slip-in", or "machine-in" I like the slip-ins because it saves the cost of machining. This comment will spark off a debate fer sure! There is an old book called "How to Hot Rod your Volkswagon" by Bill Fisher that is an invaluable asset when assembly time comes around. I use the little Facet electric fuel pump. The stock pump is the most reliable tho'
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Paul. T
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PostSubject: Re: 1600dp Build   Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:07 pm

I would like to go full flow but Im not sure how much it cost to have it drilled. Im trying to keep it some what on a budget and not end up with a million dollar 1641. How can you tell the crank is counterweighted? because of the way the lobes(idk what their called) are offset or something?. What should I upgrade the cam to? (if at all) as Im going for a slightly beefed up motor. I guess overall I want mild performance and decent mileage monster. Only top name products will be used, if I cant afford it I will wait until I can.
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PostSubject: paul   Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:31 pm

You have an aftermarket cam also, the gear is bolted to the cam
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PostSubject: Re: 1600dp Build   Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:42 pm

I can do the drilling and tapping for you. If you look at a pic of a stock crank, you'll see the difference. Your crank is also 8 doweled, so you will need to find an 8 dowel flywheel. I like the Engle 100 or 110 cam. With the 110 you will definitely need more than a stock carb. You don't have to go too wild to get what you're after.
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Paul. T
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PostSubject: Re: 1600dp Build   Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:29 am

speedbuggy wrote:
I can do the drilling and tapping for you. If you look at a pic of a stock crank, you'll see the difference. Your crank is also 8 doweled, so you will need to find an 8 dowel flywheel. I like the Engle 100 or 110 cam. With the 110 you will definitely need more than a stock carb. You don't have to go too wild to get what you're after.



That would be great!!. When are you available for me to drop off the case?. Im free in the mornings and anytime on the weekends. The motor I have came with everything so Ill check out the flywheel and see if its 8 dowel as well. Ive got two cranks one with vw stamped on and the other Ive not yet looked.
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PostSubject: Re: 1600dp Build   Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:13 am

The main thing is to measure everything twice! That means the case, the crank and the rods. That is how you tell what bearings to get. I would take everything with you to Eric's.. he can probably mic everything for you... if not I can.

Also.. just an opinion.. forget the 1641.. just stay with 1600. You will feel NO difference and you are getting less metal on the cyl walls which hurts cooling. Again, my opinion, but it is a fact you can read about.

That is a nice crank.. check for cracks.. if all good, you will get some high rev's with that crank.

Looks like you have a great start!

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Paul. T
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PostSubject: Re: 1600dp Build   Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:46 am

JUST STAY WITH A 1600?!!?!? hahaa, the more I find out I just may. The "slip-in" kits Ive been reading about are apparently warp and crack very easily?, then with the machine in kits Im guessing will be a little too much cash for so little increase in performance.
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Mateo
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PostSubject: Re: 1600dp Build   Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:23 am

I run the slip in 87mm jugs and I run them pretty hard. (probably why my brakes are having issues) The only place the walls are thinner is where they slip into the block and the heads. They make up thickness in the exposed fin area.

In my opinion, you aren't increasing the stroke or going high compression so this is not a 'huge' issue. I have built alot of high compression stroked quads and a VW isn't much bigger. HaHa. But I am not a complete noob in engine design, just the VW part.

All that said, I think the 87mm 1640 slip ins are OK, but NOT the larger 88mm. The 88s for whatever reason they do not increase the wall thickness and they are thinner.

I have had no issues (with the cylinders anyway). I ran about 205 degrees last summer for oil temp. I haven't ran head temp yet so I guess I don't have all the data.

Add a sump, go full flow with an external racing oil filter. Put the filter in the air flow under the car.

You'll have a full 6 quarts of oil to keep things cool.

Add extra carburetion, increase your exhaust size and go with 1.4 ratio rockers unless you are going to do something funky with the cam. Let it breath.

Spend the money and have the heads redone or I think the guys know how to do that. But I know if your valves aren't right, you'll chase that forever thinking you have other problems.

That's my two cents. Everyone has a different recipe that works for them.

I think the main thing is to go for it and have fun!

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PostSubject: Re: 1600dp Build   Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:06 am

Cool. Kustom1warehouse has forged 87mm slip in kit. I was planning on getting the head done, I figure I might as well since their off and everything is apart. Plus if I were to sell it I would feel confident knowing I left nothing untouched. Ive found a little info on my camshaft, markings on oil pump side are 4061 according to an ad the duration is at 270 and lift is at 396. The engle 100 cam is 276 duration and 383 lift, is it THAT big of a difference?.
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Jim Douglas Jr
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PostSubject: Re: 1600dp Build   Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:53 pm

I'll write this post assuming you're trying to keep to a budget and just build up the engine to a good potential without going overboard. That's the vibe I got.
I have a well tuned 1600 DP (34 PICT carb/.009 dist/electronic points) and I can get the thing to do 95 MPH.
The 1600 is a great engine and very dependable. Set up right, it's plenty perky. Carefully leaning out the mixture helps, being sure not to mix too little fuel which can lead to poor uphill performance or running hot.
I do run typical 165/80 tires on it, though. Once you start playing with shorter profile tires and wheels in the rear, boom, there goes your performance, hence the "need" for the bigger engines.

I managed to up the top end on this particular car by replacing, off all things, the $5 accelerator pedal hinge. Full throw on that baby now.

I suppose it's all in what you want to do with the car, but for nice economy and dependability, the 1600 is really all the bang-for-your-buck you need. You won't hear me complain about mine.

Now, all that said, as long as you're buying new cylinders anyway, it sounds like you've got some sound advice from Mateo. You can probably forgo the bigger sump setup by replacing the oil pump with a high flow one from CB Performance. They move 30% more oil than the stock one, and you're not going that much bigger.
Hight flow oil pump, CB Performance.
Like I said, I guess only you really know what you want out of it.
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60herbie53
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PostSubject: Re: 1600dp Build   Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:32 pm

Shorter tires will not effect anything except your top end. You essentially lower the gear ratio by doing so. If you do this you will need to put a different ring and pinion (freeway flyer) trans. in it to compensate.

The 1600 I have runs fantastic and I have not experienced any problems with adequate performance. Matt has given you good advice so if you plan to go that route you will be fine.

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PostSubject: Re: 1600dp Build   Mon Apr 18, 2011 9:41 pm

I also agree with these guys about the 1600/009/34pict combo. It's what I run in my daily driver, and it's plenty adequate. I run the slip-in 88s with 7lbs of boost in my buggy, but they are an old set of Mahles from the '70's. Maybe the quality was better back then? When you're ready, PM me and w can get together on your case. I'm a bit busy right now, but we;ll work something out.
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PostSubject: Re: 1600dp Build   Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:57 pm

I am trying too switch over to a duel port
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Mateo
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PostSubject: Re: 1600dp Build   Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:07 pm

Are yours 88s or 87s Eric?

An 88mm bore with a stock 69mm stroke would give you 1678cc of displacement if my math is correct.

87s give you a 1640cc or 1641cc depending on where you round in the equation.

study scratch study

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PostSubject: Re: 1600dp Build   Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:09 pm

88's
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PostSubject: Re: 1600dp Build   Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:13 pm

I just edited my post. I ran the math, so you are actually running a 1678cc???

scratch

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PostSubject: Re: 1600dp Build   Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:19 pm

I think it's referred to as 1650?
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PostSubject: Re: 1600dp Build   Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:38 pm

...or is it a 1.65L. lol!

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PostSubject: Re: 1600dp Build   Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:51 pm

60herbie53 wrote:
...or is it a 1.65L. lol!
You're not "Turning Japanese" on us , are you?
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PostSubject: Re: 1600dp Build   Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:58 pm


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PostSubject: Re: 1600dp Build   Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:01 am

Man, you guys just have way too much fun, lol
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PostSubject: Re: 1600dp Build   Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:06 am

Thanks Dann! Can't believe that I've never actually seen the video. That was cool! BTW, smooth hi-jack.....
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PostSubject: Re: 1600dp Build   Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:30 am

We are that good.

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PostSubject: Here is the thing   Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:24 pm

Put the best parts you can afford and it will be fine. It looks like you have a good crank you should be able to push a little more RPM's out of it, I bet that is an aftermarket cam. Get some good P&C's and let Eric full flow the case and have fun.. And Yes have the heads checked out, they may even be modified.

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