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 Improved heat... Soon!

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Bradford
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PostSubject: Improved heat... Soon!   Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:32 pm

Well after talking with the boys on Saturday and a little research today.. ordered up 2) 3" inline blower fans to add into my system for beter heat.

Read on the forums (about 3 different forums).. that these little blowers work well when cut into the Y area under the rear seat. So instead of paying Barney's 175.00 bucks.. bought the two fans for 50 with shipping and will pick up a switch at Napa..

I will take pics and let ya all know how it works.. hoping to get some defogging going on.

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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:29 pm

I've done the same thing on the '70. It's noisy, but it helps. Do you have the original ducting in the fan shroud?(With the bellows control) If not, try to come up with the parts. That make a big difference.
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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:36 pm

Are you talking about the flaps for the 'thermostat'???? scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:35 pm

The flaps in the lower part of the fan shroud. The flaps are connected to a rod that drops through the cyl heads and is connected to a brass bellows under the pushrod tubes. I guess it would be called a thermostat.
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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:52 pm

no, don't have the thermostat controlled flaps.. most don't anymore.. to many of them caused over heated engine because they got stuck. Your right, would heat up the engine faster, but still should work.

What blower motors did you get?

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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:17 pm

I used marine fans for venting fumes from the engine well. I put them inline where the "Y" was. Wrapped them with insulation and an old innertube to quiet them down. Also added extra foam to the bottom of the seat. The drawback to removing the insulated Y, is that you lose the "muffler" effect in the heater. Whenever you open up the heat lever, all you can hear is valve noise and rushing air. In hindsight, I would see if there was a way to mount them between the motor and the body in that flex/ bellows area.
The big advantage to having the "thermostat" shroud is that in cold weather, less air goes over the cyls, therefore more air goes into the car. I'm thinking about a cyl temp gauge to keep an eye on engine temp.
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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Tue Mar 22, 2011 1:39 am

So I found these mounting flanges:



I was going to eliminate the fan shroud from the equation.

I was going to mount these flanges on the firewall with the fans inside the cab and then connect to the accordian type hoses from the firewall down to the heater boxes.

So you basically would not have fresh air, not that it is fresh now anyway from the shroud.

It would just recirculate and heat the air in the cab...

If I wanted fresh air I would open up the front nostrils, do bugs have those? Cool

Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:26 am

I don't know Matt.. after reading all the pro's and con's from the forums, the worry is that during the summer you don't have any air flow in the heater boxes so they get pretty damn hot and can heat up the heads a bit. I have read pro's on both.. but the heat issue kept coming up.

The worry about putting the fans in the bellow area is that the plastic fans are real close to the heat of the boxes and can melt.. I did read about the noise part... small price to pay for winter heat I suppose.

I am with you.. forget the oil temp.. I want head temp.. that is when there is real danger.

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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:58 pm

A few tidbits here. Read carefully, especially the last one.
VWs actually have fairly good heat if the system is sealed/closed and the airflow path is fairly smooth.

Be sure the flexible connector is sealed well to the heater box and body tubes, and that the flexible hoses are routed smoothly under the tin. A lot of those under body flex tubes don't fit well to the heaterboxes and body tube and there's a lot of air loss or cool air introduction there.

Also be sure the slack is taken up in the cables to the heater boxes, so that they're being opened as much as possible when you turn the heat knob/pull the heat levers. The cables do tend to stretch a bit.

Last thing to check.
Bugs have/had a nearly useless rear seat heat tube from the passenger side. It robbed the front defroster and footwell on the passenger side of 40% of it's potential output.
Remove/disconnect this. Also, BE SURE to remove the mounting tube bracket stub thingy from the main heater tube under the seat. It diverted some air into the rear seat heater tube because it juts a little into the main tube. It's held on by one or two screws. Wrap the hole with metalized tape. This will divert much more heat to the front footwell and defroster outlet on the passenger side.

Rusty heater channels can cause a big loss in heat, obviously, too.

Good luck.

Last note. The extra fans will definitely help, and you'll have them on a switch, so even if they're a little loud, you can turn them off when not needed. Still check the rest of the system to be sure it's fairly well sealed up.


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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:15 pm

my heater system works really well.. it will roast you out of the cab. But as with all bugs.. getting that heat to the front windshield in the morning is the key... I have thought about eliminating the rear vents and only running the fronts.. but not sure.

The main thing is the fogging of the windows.. need to get the heat to the windshield and get it hot enough to combat the fogging.. hence the blowers.

I am going to play with it and see what I come up with.. lot's of ideas rolling around up there....oh wait, that is just some loose marbles.. anyway...

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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:59 pm

You are right Brad, the blowers will help, they're just noisy. Nothing a 200 watt stereo won't handle.....
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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:26 pm

I got the Attwood 3000's... the guys on the forums said these were fairly quite.. we shall see.

You figure the fan inside a 'normal' car is loud when on full as well.. so you think they are louder than that?

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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:50 pm

Waaay louder. Along with the fan noise, you get engine noise because you lose the "mufflers" that are built in to the "Y". Overall, it's worth it, because the fans do help. I turn mine on while the bug is warming up in the morning, then turn them off when I'm driving. Swing by if you like, and you can check out how I did mine and listen to them.
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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:58 pm

This rain is BS... Mad

I am consumed with fog on the windsheild today and the rear window isn't much better. What a Face

I can barely drive, this is dumb.

Did I mention this rain is BS, OH and the wind blows too (haha I made a funny). Mad

So I am in on this blower upgrade.

Where did you get your fans Brad?

I am going to pick up a set like soon.

Did I mention all this rain is BS? Mad

I guess I should go ahead and get some new rubber while I am shopping.

Oh, and I guess I better figure out how to fix the floor vents so I can shut those off. You know the ones that are listed as 'extremely rare' on all the websites for a '69.

I am sure I will be much happier in the spring.

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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:46 pm

Your are right bro.. this is BS.. .I to am sick of this shit and ready to kill someone....

I got my fans on Amazon.com.. just type in "in line fans" and you will find the atwood 3000's... for 19 bucks each. I got them yesterday. I went to Napa this morning and picked up a fused line (wire with an inline fuse) and a reostat type switch.. the switch was a whole 15 bucks and is made for an old chevy heater blower motor. So I can control the speed.

I am going to try to hook up tomorrow. If this BS weather let's up enough for me to do so.. (No garage).

I might try to hook one fan up to the defrost system first. meaning under the front hood.. run the 1" hose from the duct to the fan then back into the defroster. Since my heaters heat the car.. I need air on the windshield. I have been reading today that air is best pulled in anyway.. so if I can grab some heat from the heater chanell and force it to the windshield.. should be solid.

Figure this is less evasive to try first and see if it works before I cut up the Y under the seat.

I will let you know how it works.

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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:33 pm

Hmmm.... Interesting.

There is an idea. About intercepting the fresh air from the front...

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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:05 pm

no..no.. not fresh air. My defrost tubes where cut when I got the bug. Speedie hooked me up with some tubing and the water catch basin... so it is no thing for me to disconnect the defrost tube from the heater channel.. attach it to the inline fan.. the out back to the defroster vent on the bug.

So still utilizing the heat from the heaters.. but power boosting it at the defroster area.. rather than trying to push it all the way from the back.. hence why there is a problem with the system now...

So the fan will be drawing warm air from the heater system, but blasting it onto the windshield.. if this works okay.. I will y the tube and make it go into the fresh air vent as well.. so I get warm air blowing strong in two vent on the left and the two on the right. If my science is correct, this should work.

We shall see....

And by the way.. SNOW SUCKS... sick of it...sick of it... sick of it.... sick of it.

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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:57 pm

It'll be interesting to see how it actually works. I agree about the snow. I'm getting a little tired of it.

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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:11 am

I'll have to look. I know I have a 'Y' where the fresh air from the nostrils and the air from the heater channels can mix based on the position of the levers. I know where the fresh air tube comes up from the front, but I never really paid too much attention to where the heat comes in from the heater channels.

I think some of my problem may also be because I have the floor vent covers off. They are all busted up and I am trying to resurrect them but that is a job in itself. So the two vents are basically wide open.

She does fine in the light stuff, but the past two times being out in the heavy rain, it gets to be a loosing battle. Especially taking on water due to poor rubber on the doors and windows.

I ordered two fan units though. I will find someplace to add them.

And with regards to the snow, other than playing Tokyo Drift on Auburn Road the other day, I am with you, it pretty much sucks.

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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:27 am

Brad, I like your thinking about pulling the air. Interested to see how it works.
Matt, I hammered out a couple pieces of sheetmetal and screwed them over the floor vents until I found some good covers.
Oh, yeah. The snow sucks!
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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:35 am

The sheet metal covers are a great idea!

Cool. Thanks. cheers

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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:36 am

Well.. I have tomorrow off.. have to work Saturday..BLaH...

So if we actually can catch a F'N break in the weather.. will try to at least get one hooked up to the driver side and see how she does.

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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:54 am

There's always Brawny paper towels! Best accessory ever made for VWs.
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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:08 am

I prefer the 'As Seen on TV Windshield Wonder Car Glass Cleaner'

http://www.asseenontvguys.com/windshield-wonder.aspx

"I got it on sale at Target, it's real nice!"

Laughing

I just ordered two fans...

bounce

I will probably get them the day the rain stops.

You all can thank me later...

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PostSubject: Re: Improved heat... Soon!   Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:02 am

I just use a towel to wipe the windows off. As far as heat, well, I don't have any. Funny thing is, in my Super, the heat worked great, but not the defrost, so the window would fog up. So I hardly ever used it. During the motor switcheroo, I just put J-tubes in and closed off all the openings in the heater channels.
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